@zigg @mulander it had a use *briefly* when mozilla put DRM into their browser - it was probably the most mainstream mozilla fork to take an anti-DRM stance. But this isn't the only thing they've done Wrong. They also removed the ability to install AdNauseam add frustration tool. That's when I forked https://github.com/themusicgod1/Paler-Moon/network
@mulander That "you will" phrasing was unforgivably presumptuous.
If somebody addressed me in that fashion, and they weren't paying me, I would tell them to fuck off. Hell, I'd probably tell them to fuck off regardless.
@mulander No shit. It's almost as if the Pale Moon clowns think OpenBSD is some fly-by-night operation.
@mulander Moonchild seems to have very ... peculiar opinions in general. They're also under the impression that the purpose of TLS certificates is to mark websites as non-fraudulent: https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?p=117501#p117501
Yep, that's definitely the kind of understanding of the Web PKI I'd wish for from a browser vendor.
@mulander a fun game is to look through mozilla's security advisories from about a year or two ago, find a good one (sev:critical, rce), search mozilla's tree for the bug number to find the patch, and then check if pale moon has the same code and if they patched it 😬
that's why I won't touch it
@cb Never realized that Pale Moon does not have the same code like Firefox? The patches what Mozilla inserts are useless if the code does not exist in Pale Moon. And pretty much code of Mozilla of lately is not around.
How should the security issue arrive then? Present from Avatar or Santa Claus?
Very often, newly found vulnerabilities are actually very old.
Take for example this: https://www.securityfocus.com/bid/96691
Security issue from March 2017 - it was present in the browser since Mozilla Firefox 0.1...
I believe so, however the issue (in this thread) isn't about the branding. It's about Palemoon's response to a work-in-progress repo to port it to OpenBSD, which was not being distributed at the time of the github issue. @bcallah had reached out to them about the branding through their forums, and this issue on github is their response.
At least, that's how I understand it.
@rook @architect @mulander I also don't think there were bad intentions either. But a "Hey, do you mind disabling x, y, and z while we figure out all the logistics?" from them would have been met with a "Sure, no problem." from me. I have better things to do with my time than deal with attacks in response to my trying to work with them.
If so, it kinda comes off as a list of requested instructions. Again, totally tactless.
Don't get me wrong, my response to that kind of comment would be very stern regardless of their intent.
This whole thread is getting even more bizarre https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2018-February/112469.html
@mulander the Pale Moon Cartel will break your kneecaps if you 'misuse' their O F F I C I A L B R A N D I N G
@Cybertrash @mulander They are not wrong though... he just pointed out, correctly, that it is a violation. Perhaps a bit precipitously but why should he wait? He didn't use any foul language. He was direct.
I think Ibra was the one who had a bad day... Respecting licenses is important. Everyone in FOSS knows this. It is bad when a non-foss project misuse this.. but a foss-project like openBSD should know better. Instead of just acknowledging the issue he demanded to talk to the IP owner...
I think Ibara sidestepped a bit there.. He could have mentioned the post on their forum e.t.c.. instead of just demanding to talk to the IP-holder.
It is sad to see it went the way it did.
@mulander In my time working with different projects, I've learned to focus on coming to a solution that benefits everyone. Compromises have to be met. I've learned to focus on advancing technology, rather than proving I'm right. It seems other people might need to learn to do the same.
@lattera eh yeah, they were approached by Brian 2 days before that issue popped up on their own forums (links & details in the github ticket). It just pisses me off, I saw him sharing screenshots here and on birdsite for having it running then he got a middle finger as a thank you.
@mulander pale moon is a really strange thing to be honest, besides the licencing stuff, which to me seems just about enough to not use it, they also ban some add-ons from Mozilla store for being e.g. "amoral" as they say it, and, although one can enable those add-ons somewhere in configuration pages, this "moderation" policy seems really strange to me
@mulander Oh hey look, now the Pale Moon people are accusing me of being people I'm not (for the record, my user name there is ibara). I hadn't heard of Pale Moon back in 2016 when this user account was being created.
But, you know, if I have to be their bogeyman, that's not the worst thing in the world.
But wow, talk about beating a dead horse. Otoh, they don't seem coordinated enough to launch any real harassment campaign, so that's good.
@craigmaloney @mulander I'm glad it (appears to at least) seems that I'm wrong and that the person who was frustrated and quit in that forum post just also happens to be named Brian. Because otherwise, it places me in some perverse power over their project that I really don't want. I want them to just move on.
But there is such a thing as bad publicity.
"This is a bad movie" is not bad publicity. It lets people know the film exists, and someone will hear the description and think it's great.
"This person is an ass, and here's the public record on being an ass" is bad publicity.
@pertho @mulander /me *shrugs*
At this point, if there isn't anything new from them, we should leave it alone. They can't control the narrative on their own forums.
And there's a power imbalance anyway. We're bigger than them, we've been around much longer than them, and we'll be around long after they're gone. Ignoring them is the right thing to do now.
Not in OpenBSD ports, not in pkgsrc, not in Alpine Linux, maybe booted from FreeBSD ports. Seems like the right resolution to me.
@mulander @pertho They clearly don't understand that the problem is behavior and community building. Those things are less important to them than their branding. They're being punished for that stance. And that's OK.
I'd like to see Pale Moon in OpenBSD ports someday. Perhaps they'll learn from their mistakes. Maybe they won't. But it's not up to me to decide.
What's clear right now is they're not capable of being a good upstream. I have hundreds of awesome upstreams I work with. So it's them.
@mulander Not the first time I hear about them sadly... https://lobste.rs/s/hfzbfj/pale_moon_blocks_adnauseam_extension ...
@mulander I for myself will keep on using Pale Moon as Mozilla is a radical leftist extremist browser developer.
And something like that i am not going to support. Also not supporting their Chrome addiction (removing customization to be Chrome user's hero)
THAT is disgusting and a REAL issue.
@DCM you are free to use whatever you please. What has been criticized from the beginning is how pale moon approached a person actually doing work for them.
I am not judging the browser, nor it's users - I however don't see myself working with an upstream like that, and frankly their technical choices (bundling libs) also collides with what I consider a practice that I would support..